Conversations

Conversations

Conversations draws you deeper into the life story of someone you may have heard about, but never met. Journey into their world, joining them on epic adventures to unfamiliar places, back in time to wild moments of history, and into their deepest memories, to be moved by personal stories of resilience and redemption. Hosted by Richard Fidler and Sarah Kanowski, Conversations is the ABC's most popular long-form interview program. Every day we explore the vast tapestry of human experience, weaving together narratives from history, science, art, and personal storytelling. Conversations Live is coming to the stage! Join Sarah Kanowski and Richard Fidler for an unmissable night of unforgettable stories, behind-the-scenes secrets, and surprise guests. Australia’s most-loved podcast — live, up close, and in the moment. Find out more at the Conversations website.
00:00
00:00

Episode's summary

Marine biologist Dr. Cullen Brown explores the complex sensory and cognitive worlds of fish, revealing their ability to communicate through sound, perceive advanced colors, and utilize smell and taste for social identification. The episode delves into the 'oddity effect' and the sophisticated social learning observed in species like salmon and manta rays. The conversation further examines the intelligence of marine life, debunking myths about short-term memory and discussing the capacity for self-recognition. Dr. Brown also highlights the intense behaviors of Port Jackson sharks and discusses the significant ethical implications for animal welfare legislation based on fish consciousness.

Chapters

Click on a chapter to go directly to that moment

Highlights

Cullen Brown says humans and fish are essentially made from the same box of Lego, just with a few tweaks.

00:01:31 · The speaker uses this metaphor to illustrate the biological similarities between humans and fish.

There was a study that came out couple of years ago that show that actually fish are capable of not only recognizing human faces, but differentiating between them, not just your whole body form, but your and your face.

00:18:46 · The speaker highlights the advanced cognitive ability of fish to recognize specific individual humans.

And they not only continued that behavior, but they improved further. That 11 months after, you know, maybe 15 or 20 minutes worth of exposure beforehand.

00:23:38 · The speaker reveals the astonishing finding that fish demonstrated long-term memory and even improvement after an eleven-month gap.

This idea that the fish forget everything every two seconds is just not true at all.

00:27:15 · The speaker refutes the common misconception regarding the extremely short memory span of goldfish.

They are huge because we need to start treating fishes in the same way that we treat at least other vertebrates and potentially things like octopus and squid need to go into that basket as well.

00:46:27 · The speaker highlights the ethical necessity of extending animal welfare protections to fish based on their demonstrated cognitive abilities.

Episodes

4958-

Encore: Inside the minds of the fish who sleep, have friends, and know it's the weekend

Marine biologist Dr. Cullen Brown explores the complex sensory and cognitive worlds of fish, revealing their ability to communicate through sound, perceive advanced colors, and utilize smell and taste for social identification. The episode delves into the 'oddity effect' and the sophisticated social learning observed in species like salmon and manta rays. The conversation further examines the intelligence of marine life, debunking myths about short-term memory and discussing the capacity for self-recognition. Dr. Brown also highlights the intense behaviors of Port Jackson sharks and discusses the significant ethical implications for animal welfare legislation based on fish consciousness.

15 Oct 2026
4957-

How I decentred men and fell in love with my friends instead of another f*ckboy

Dee Salmon explores her personal history, beginning with the whirlwind romance of her parents—an Australian ballet dancer and a Russian dancer—and the challenges of growing up in a rigid, emotionally unpredictable household. She reflects on how these early dynamics shaped her views on love and self-worth during her teenage years. The episode follows Dee's journey through a traumatic car accident and the isolation of COVID-19 lockdowns, periods that ultimately led to a profound period of self-discovery. By breaking unhealthy dating patterns and embracing therapy, she transitioned from a people-pleasing 'cool girl' to a person with strong boundaries, eventually finding a healthy, low-pressure relationship and an expanded definition of romance.

14 Oct 2026
4956-

A little girl with a life split in three — how Mimi made it [PART II]

Mimi Kua discusses her transition from architecture to journalism, recounting her early career milestones including an ABC cadetship and the challenges of navigating the Australian media as a person of Asian heritage. She shares personal anecdotes ranging from professional mishaps at Channel 9 to navigating her mother's mental health crisis. Mimi also reflects on profound family experiences, including a legal battle with her father and the process of excavating her family history. Ultimately, she describes how understanding her parents' struggles as migrants allowed her to move beyond forgiveness toward a state of deep empathy and peace.

13 Oct 2026
4955-

A little girl with a life split in three — how Mimi made it [PART I]

In this episode, Mimi Kwa discusses her memoir, 'House of Kwar', which explores the complex family history involving her father's survival of the Japanese occupation in Hong Kong and her mother's struggle with untreated schizophrenia. The conversation delves into the traumatic childhood experiences of both parents and the impact of these hidden family histories on Mimi's own upbringing. Mimi reflects on the heavy responsibility she felt as a young carer and her diverse upbringing, ranging from life in her father's backpackers hostel to the influence of her Auntie Teresa. She shares how her teenage years were marked by rebellion and academic achievement, eventually finding a sense of self-compassion that integrates her various identities.

12 Oct 2026
4954-

Mick Fanning on surfing, punching a great white shark, and losing three brothers

Pro surfer Mick Fanning discusses the devastating 2022 Gold Coast floods and the spontaneous community rescue efforts that emerged amidst government delays. He reflects on his early life, including a life-changing Rip Curl sponsorship at age 16 and the profound influence of his brothers. The episode also explores deep personal tragedies, including the loss of his brothers Sean and Ed, a career-threatening injury, and a terrifying encounter with a great white shark. Fanning shares how he navigated intense grief and media scrutiny through family support, eventually finding peace and new beginnings.

09 Oct 2026